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	<title>Comments on: Avery Doninger, the First Amendment and Some &#8216;Douchbags&#8217;</title>
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	<link>http://twinkies.bastetweb.com/2007/09/27/avery-doninger-the-first-amendment-and-some-douchbags/</link>
	<description>Crunchy Freaks R Us</description>
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		<title>By: Stacie</title>
		<link>http://twinkies.bastetweb.com/2007/09/27/avery-doninger-the-first-amendment-and-some-douchbags/comment-page-1/#comment-8184</link>
		<dc:creator>Stacie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 19:30:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://twinkies.bastetweb.com/?p=679#comment-8184</guid>
		<description>Lydia -- I think we are in total agreement that the administration had no legal right to punish her for speech made outside of school.  I am sorry I repeated the misinformation about her misspelling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lydia &#8212; I think we are in total agreement that the administration had no legal right to punish her for speech made outside of school.  I am sorry I repeated the misinformation about her misspelling.</p>
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		<title>By: Lydia</title>
		<link>http://twinkies.bastetweb.com/2007/09/27/avery-doninger-the-first-amendment-and-some-douchbags/comment-page-1/#comment-8151</link>
		<dc:creator>Lydia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jan 2008 17:30:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://twinkies.bastetweb.com/?p=679#comment-8151</guid>
		<description>I just stumbled on this conversation, which I&#039;m sure you&#039;re long past done with.  But a few comments nonetheless as I&#039;m close to this case.  A) the mother was very disappointed in the girl&#039;s choice of language. B) the mother was fully prepared to punish her and even to work with the school to punish her in a reasonable way. C) douchebag was NOT spelled incorrectly in the blog - it is some crazy erroneous reporting that took off like wildfire - look at the exhibits as posted in the filings...  D) this is a kid who has contributed endlessly to school and community, she has never been in trouble - it was a misstep that was up to the family to contend with.  E) Does anyone really think it&#039;s a good idea for school administrators to be making decisions about what a student does at 9:30 at night?  F) look at the court exhibits- the administrators behaved like martinets. They issues an extreme punishment for behavior they had no constitutional right to punish.  So many issues with this case that ARE fundamentally about democratic principles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just stumbled on this conversation, which I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re long past done with.  But a few comments nonetheless as I&#8217;m close to this case.  A) the mother was very disappointed in the girl&#8217;s choice of language. B) the mother was fully prepared to punish her and even to work with the school to punish her in a reasonable way. C) douchebag was NOT spelled incorrectly in the blog &#8211; it is some crazy erroneous reporting that took off like wildfire &#8211; look at the exhibits as posted in the filings&#8230;  D) this is a kid who has contributed endlessly to school and community, she has never been in trouble &#8211; it was a misstep that was up to the family to contend with.  E) Does anyone really think it&#8217;s a good idea for school administrators to be making decisions about what a student does at 9:30 at night?  F) look at the court exhibits- the administrators behaved like martinets. They issues an extreme punishment for behavior they had no constitutional right to punish.  So many issues with this case that ARE fundamentally about democratic principles.</p>
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		<title>By: Stacie</title>
		<link>http://twinkies.bastetweb.com/2007/09/27/avery-doninger-the-first-amendment-and-some-douchbags/comment-page-1/#comment-6334</link>
		<dc:creator>Stacie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2007 02:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://twinkies.bastetweb.com/?p=679#comment-6334</guid>
		<description>Real Justice -- You seem to have a fairly slanted view of the case yourself.  

Another alternative source of information for those interested in the case would be http://cooljustice.blogspot.com/search?q=avery+doninger</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Real Justice &#8212; You seem to have a fairly slanted view of the case yourself.  </p>
<p>Another alternative source of information for those interested in the case would be <a href="http://cooljustice.blogspot.com/search?q=avery+doninger" rel="nofollow">http://cooljustice.blogspot.com/search?q=avery+doninger</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anon</title>
		<link>http://twinkies.bastetweb.com/2007/09/27/avery-doninger-the-first-amendment-and-some-douchbags/comment-page-1/#comment-6333</link>
		<dc:creator>Anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2007 01:55:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://twinkies.bastetweb.com/?p=679#comment-6333</guid>
		<description>There are four U.S. Supreme Court cases that deal with the First Amendment rights of public school students. 

Tinker v. Des Moines Independent School District, 1969: In protest against the Vietnam War, high school students wore black armbands to school. The principal suspended the students who refused to remove the armbands, after fearing they were going to cause disturbances. The Supreme Court in a 7-2 decision overturned the suspension, saying that public schools can’t restrict student speech unless they can prove a disturbance resulting from the speech is likely to “materially and substantially interfere” with school operations. 

Bethel School District No. 403 v. Fraser, 1986: A high school student was suspended for giving a sexually suggestive speech at a school election assembly. The Supreme Court upheld the suspension by a 7­2 vote, saying a school is entitled to teach its students “the boundaries of socially acceptable behavior” and can ban lewd, vulgar or profane student expression on school grounds or at school sponsored events without having to show likelihood of disruption. 

Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier, 1988: A high school principal refused to allow the school’s official student newspaper to publish controversial articles about pregnancy and divorce. The Supreme Court sided with the principal, 5-3, saying the Tinker case does not apply to school-sponsored student speech. The court’s decision found educators may “in any reasonable manner” control content of school-sponsored publications, productions and other expressive activities. 

Morse vs. Frederick, 2007: A high school student was suspended for displaying a sign that said “Bong Hits 4 Jesus,” while the students had been allowed during school time and under school supervision to watch the Olympic Torch go by in the streets. The court ruled 5 4 that his suspension was constitutional, saying that just as in the Fraser case, schools have the right to teach socially acceptable behavior, including deterring drug use. Schools can punish or prohibit student speech advocating illegal drug use even if it is not likely to cause disruption.

— Source: The Center for First Amendment Rights</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are four U.S. Supreme Court cases that deal with the First Amendment rights of public school students. </p>
<p>Tinker v. Des Moines Independent School District, 1969: In protest against the Vietnam War, high school students wore black armbands to school. The principal suspended the students who refused to remove the armbands, after fearing they were going to cause disturbances. The Supreme Court in a 7-2 decision overturned the suspension, saying that public schools can’t restrict student speech unless they can prove a disturbance resulting from the speech is likely to “materially and substantially interfere” with school operations. </p>
<p>Bethel School District No. 403 v. Fraser, 1986: A high school student was suspended for giving a sexually suggestive speech at a school election assembly. The Supreme Court upheld the suspension by a 7­2 vote, saying a school is entitled to teach its students “the boundaries of socially acceptable behavior” and can ban lewd, vulgar or profane student expression on school grounds or at school sponsored events without having to show likelihood of disruption. </p>
<p>Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier, 1988: A high school principal refused to allow the school’s official student newspaper to publish controversial articles about pregnancy and divorce. The Supreme Court sided with the principal, 5-3, saying the Tinker case does not apply to school-sponsored student speech. The court’s decision found educators may “in any reasonable manner” control content of school-sponsored publications, productions and other expressive activities. </p>
<p>Morse vs. Frederick, 2007: A high school student was suspended for displaying a sign that said “Bong Hits 4 Jesus,” while the students had been allowed during school time and under school supervision to watch the Olympic Torch go by in the streets. The court ruled 5 4 that his suspension was constitutional, saying that just as in the Fraser case, schools have the right to teach socially acceptable behavior, including deterring drug use. Schools can punish or prohibit student speech advocating illegal drug use even if it is not likely to cause disruption.</p>
<p>— Source: The Center for First Amendment Rights</p>
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		<title>By: Bucket O&#8217; Bulletz &#187; Carnival of Injustice volume 2</title>
		<link>http://twinkies.bastetweb.com/2007/09/27/avery-doninger-the-first-amendment-and-some-douchbags/comment-page-1/#comment-6255</link>
		<dc:creator>Bucket O&#8217; Bulletz &#187; Carnival of Injustice volume 2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 21:55:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://twinkies.bastetweb.com/?p=679#comment-6255</guid>
		<description>[...] Turner presents Avery Doninger, the First Amendment and Some ‘Douchbags’ posted at The [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Turner presents Avery Doninger, the First Amendment and Some ‘Douchbags’ posted at The [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Real Justice</title>
		<link>http://twinkies.bastetweb.com/2007/09/27/avery-doninger-the-first-amendment-and-some-douchbags/comment-page-1/#comment-6201</link>
		<dc:creator>The Real Justice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 13:48:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://twinkies.bastetweb.com/?p=679#comment-6201</guid>
		<description>Wow...I&#039;m surprised by how inaccurate your summary of the case facts are.  I would think you could present the facts of the case, which can be found here: http://www.nysd.uscourts.gov/courtweb/pdf/D02CTXC/07-03604.PDF and let your audience think for themselves.  

This is a great read.

Another more realistic take on the case can be found here as well: http://brownraysman.typepad.com/technology_law_update/2007/09/back-to-school-.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow&#8230;I&#8217;m surprised by how inaccurate your summary of the case facts are.  I would think you could present the facts of the case, which can be found here: <a href="http://www.nysd.uscourts.gov/courtweb/pdf/D02CTXC/07-03604.PDF" rel="nofollow">http://www.nysd.uscourts.gov/courtweb/pdf/D02CTXC/07-03604.PDF</a> and let your audience think for themselves.  </p>
<p>This is a great read.</p>
<p>Another more realistic take on the case can be found here as well: <a href="http://brownraysman.typepad.com/technology_law_update/2007/09/back-to-school-.html" rel="nofollow">http://brownraysman.typepad.com/technology_law_update/2007/09/back-to-school-.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Evolution &#187; Carnival of Education</title>
		<link>http://twinkies.bastetweb.com/2007/09/27/avery-doninger-the-first-amendment-and-some-douchbags/comment-page-1/#comment-6179</link>
		<dc:creator>Evolution &#187; Carnival of Education</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2007 15:10:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://twinkies.bastetweb.com/?p=679#comment-6179</guid>
		<description>[...] Twinkies Avery Doninger, the First Amendment and Some ‘Douchbags’ The story of Avery Doninger, censured by her school for something she wrote on her blog, supported [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Twinkies Avery Doninger, the First Amendment and Some ‘Douchbags’ The story of Avery Doninger, censured by her school for something she wrote on her blog, supported [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Hilary</title>
		<link>http://twinkies.bastetweb.com/2007/09/27/avery-doninger-the-first-amendment-and-some-douchbags/comment-page-1/#comment-6088</link>
		<dc:creator>Hilary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2007 05:11:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://twinkies.bastetweb.com/?p=679#comment-6088</guid>
		<description>Wow. I think the ruling is terrible. Of course resorting to name calling is &quot;wrong&quot;, but it is not a reason to bar someone from running for office. Not in the school, and not in the so-called real world. Dick Cheney, our vice president, told a senator to f*ck himself on the Senate floor. Not on the internet, not in a dairy. On the floor of the Senate in session. 

I also think it makes the administrators look intolerant and probably will cause some loss of respect of authority in the school.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. I think the ruling is terrible. Of course resorting to name calling is &#8220;wrong&#8221;, but it is not a reason to bar someone from running for office. Not in the school, and not in the so-called real world. Dick Cheney, our vice president, told a senator to f*ck himself on the Senate floor. Not on the internet, not in a dairy. On the floor of the Senate in session. </p>
<p>I also think it makes the administrators look intolerant and probably will cause some loss of respect of authority in the school.</p>
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		<title>By: Stacie</title>
		<link>http://twinkies.bastetweb.com/2007/09/27/avery-doninger-the-first-amendment-and-some-douchbags/comment-page-1/#comment-6056</link>
		<dc:creator>Stacie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 21:42:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://twinkies.bastetweb.com/?p=679#comment-6056</guid>
		<description>Emma&#039;s research into the limitations of the ruling are reassuring.  I still have several concerns.  

1.  I don&#039;t like the way that high school students&#039; rights are being slowly eroded.  Tinker was 40 years ago and since then there have been several major rulings that curtail free expression within schools.   Teenagers are still members of our society.

2.  I disagree with the fundamental assumption in this case that speech on a blog falls into the same category as speech within the grounds of the school.   Calling someone a name isn&#039;t illegal and I suspect that all students are not held to a standard of spotless conduct to participate in activities.  

Additionally, I doubt she would have been penalized for her writing if she hadn&#039;t already antagonized the school administration by going above their heads and seeking popular support from taxpayers so the students could use the school auditorium for a music festival.   (When the school superintendent got a slew of emails supporting the students&#039; bid to use the auditorium she was upset and the school cancelled the festival.  This was the conflict that sparked the infamous &quot;douchbag&quot; comment.)

3.  How do people learn to participate in a democratic society when they are trained in our educational institutions as they are currently structured?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emma&#8217;s research into the limitations of the ruling are reassuring.  I still have several concerns.  </p>
<p>1.  I don&#8217;t like the way that high school students&#8217; rights are being slowly eroded.  Tinker was 40 years ago and since then there have been several major rulings that curtail free expression within schools.   Teenagers are still members of our society.</p>
<p>2.  I disagree with the fundamental assumption in this case that speech on a blog falls into the same category as speech within the grounds of the school.   Calling someone a name isn&#8217;t illegal and I suspect that all students are not held to a standard of spotless conduct to participate in activities.  </p>
<p>Additionally, I doubt she would have been penalized for her writing if she hadn&#8217;t already antagonized the school administration by going above their heads and seeking popular support from taxpayers so the students could use the school auditorium for a music festival.   (When the school superintendent got a slew of emails supporting the students&#8217; bid to use the auditorium she was upset and the school cancelled the festival.  This was the conflict that sparked the infamous &#8220;douchbag&#8221; comment.)</p>
<p>3.  How do people learn to participate in a democratic society when they are trained in our educational institutions as they are currently structured?</p>
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		<title>By: Emma B</title>
		<link>http://twinkies.bastetweb.com/2007/09/27/avery-doninger-the-first-amendment-and-some-douchbags/comment-page-1/#comment-6054</link>
		<dc:creator>Emma B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 21:12:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://twinkies.bastetweb.com/?p=679#comment-6054</guid>
		<description>I actually don&#039;t think Stacie and I fundamentally disagree, Pam.  If the kid had been suspended from school or expelled, I&#039;d be right there up in arms with Stacie.  First Amendment violations are serious business, or they ought to be.

It&#039;s actually because I take the FA seriously that I&#039;m glad to see this ruling came out as it did.  If we put a suburban teenager&#039;s position as class officer on the same level as a government arresting a columnist for an unfavorable editorial, that doesn&#039;t elevate the teenager&#039;s standings -- it diminishes the seriousness of the arrest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually don&#8217;t think Stacie and I fundamentally disagree, Pam.  If the kid had been suspended from school or expelled, I&#8217;d be right there up in arms with Stacie.  First Amendment violations are serious business, or they ought to be.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s actually because I take the FA seriously that I&#8217;m glad to see this ruling came out as it did.  If we put a suburban teenager&#8217;s position as class officer on the same level as a government arresting a columnist for an unfavorable editorial, that doesn&#8217;t elevate the teenager&#8217;s standings &#8212; it diminishes the seriousness of the arrest.</p>
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