I Hate Church
Yesterday’s church adventure started with F really not wanting to walk up the aisle to sit near the choir. She started her first hissy fit when carried from the foyer, where she wanted to run around, to the pew. When I said “Excuse me” to the choir director, who was talking to B and blocking me from joining the rest of my family in the pew, he said, “Whoa, Sargeant. Put away your Sargeant uniform…” to me. By the first reading I was climbing under the pew gathering up the corn puffs F had thrown on the floor. By the second reading I was taking her outside. After the homily I swapped her for J, leaving the currently easy child inside church while I took the rowdy one out.
I picked up a copy of The Catholic Transcript in the foyer and noted the lead story was a condemnation of same sex civil unions by local bishops.
I will not allow J to ever become a boy scout as I refuse to be involved with an organization that went all the way to the Supreme Court to affirm their right to exclude homosexuals.
So…not only do I hate the actual experience of physically going to church with two toddlers, I hate the moral and ethical positions of the Church. Nice.
Stumble it!
Donate to the Zoë and Lennox Simpson Memorial Fund
and the 529 college savings accounts get a kickback.
October 8th, 2007 01:24
Man, that is one dilemma you have. I agree totally with your anti-church stance (and, for what it’s worth, with your ethical decision to support your husband in this) but think that you deserve maximum Wife Points for doing so.
The Seargent comment would have made my blood boil. I suppose you can’t use profanties in a church.
Isn’t there some kind of less … churchy church you could go to? I am totally fine with the Australian Uniting Church, because they are almost pro-gay (in parts) and are actively involved in things like injecting centres and useful social reform. It’s just the God bit that prevents me from joining them, but I support them wholeheartedly from my atheistic little corner.
October 8th, 2007 01:35
Im sorry your church is not giving you anything but horrible feelings.
But there are some really good, inviting churces. Maybe if you went to a different church where they aren’t so legalistic it might change your experience. I really hope and pray you will not yet give up.
October 8th, 2007 01:49
Oh, the compromises we have to make as partners and as parents. So sorry yours are of the religious kind. I am proud of you for picking certain issues you stick to and working with your partner on others.
October 8th, 2007 01:50
As a recovering Catholic, I can relate to how you feel. There are several reason why I left the Catholic church at 17 but discrimination was one of them. In 1979 it was discrimination against women. It was the fact the Pope never spoke out against Hitler, in silent approval. One would think the Inquisition wasn’t 600 years in the past. I believe women should have choices about their own bodies. It’s between them and their God not between them and a religious institution, or government.
I used to watch toddlers in the church nursery because toddlers just need to move!!!
I am Christian but I(the horror) chose a gentler kinder protestant church. I don’t know what I would do in your position. My mom was in the same position. She kept her mouth closed and never went to services but did attend events and sent us to CCD etc.
October 8th, 2007 08:44
Stacie,
As you know I am a gay mom, so it does really annoy me that my church treats me like a pariah, but I love going to mass… with Halie and Kyma… and unleashing them on on everyone there.
It also shows all there that God created these two beautiful, if rambunctious and loud little people and then gave them to a gay mom to raise… So they have to ask themselves how can God be wrong and what was he trying to say when he did this?
October 8th, 2007 09:48
I’m thinking we may look for a different parish, one with a cry room. It has to be Catholic, because that’s the agreement, but a cry room would make it much easier.
The parish itself is actually really quite open minded and mostly friendly, but the Church as a whole remains…not so much so.
October 8th, 2007 10:25
You’re nicer than me. I’d just let B take them and have fun. Did you actually agree that *you* would go to services?
October 8th, 2007 11:00
What about Episcopalian? It’s sort of — Catholic-lite. And it’s very “mass”-y and the US Episcopal church for the most part is very gay friendly. Our church even holds an Integrity chapter (GLBT Episcopal group). When I was becoming a member, my 10 person newcomers class included me, and 2 gay male couples. Our prayers for the people include prayers to end intolerance and discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.
And we put the babes in the nursery to play, eat crackers and juice, and make new friends.
Just a thought…
October 8th, 2007 12:18
Just because you’re Catholic (or raising your kids that way) doesn’t mean you have to follow every single idea they have because, honestly, sometimes they fall way behind the times. You always say I’m very religious, well its not because I follow every word the Church says. It’s because I “personalize” it as my dad used to say. I believe in the fundamental things, and the little nitty gritty, I believe and do what I want. Despite what they say, as long as you’re a good person, you’re not going to hell for believing that gays should have rights etc.
Talk about the Catholic thing. Most religious say the same things and have the same morals etc, they are just different ways of worshiping. The point of them is to find one that works for you and helps get you through. Maybe you need to point that out to B. Even my overly Catholic family has taught me that.
October 8th, 2007 12:29
Bingo! God bless you for going, though. I usually just stick Kate with the kids and go for my long run on Sundays (MY church).
Man, I do NOT handle people when they say things like, “Whoa Sarge…” Case in point, an old man yelled at me from behind at Lowes because that stupid race car cart was hard to handle and that’s what Jayden wanted to ride, so I was blocking his path for a whopping minute.
After he yelled at me, I laid into him for a good minute, and he sulked away. I’m not saying that’s the better solution, either, so good for you for taking it from the choir director. I wouldn’t have.
October 8th, 2007 16:16
I agree with Jennie. My mother and myself (my father forgoes the whole church thing) are both pretty defiant of the gay stance the church has. At sometimes it is especially in infuriating. Beyond their stance on homosexuality there are many other things I can not agree with (and sleep at night). One thing that i think is important is that you have your own faith. There are as many religions as there are people. On more practical matters a crying room is a must (it’s surprising that this church doesn’t have one). Don’t let institutionalized “faith” get in the way of enjoying the fundamental concepts (hell i wouldn’t be Catholic today if i didn’t do that) and make sure F and J understand that too as they grow up, nothing is more valuable than being able to think for yourself.
October 8th, 2007 16:33
Jennie — We actually talked (not totally seriously) of driving to your parish because it has a nice little cry room.
Jennie & Chris — Just so you know, people like you are why I didn’t seriously object to raising the kids Catholic thing (well, that and I get to pick their schools) - Catholicism does have so many people who just calmly ignore the parts of the institutuion that bother them. Brian’s grandmother Jane once said that the Church was a deeply flawed human institution but she found it the best framework for worshipping God.
Poker — I was less than polite and turned to the poor man and snapped, “Don’t start with me, Martin. It’s already been a difficult morning but at least we’re here.” I feel bad as one shouldn’t return rudeness with more of the same. On the other hand, at least I didn’t tell him to go fuck himself. Teaching helped to clean up my language quite a bit.
Alice — We have talked about having Brian take one kid to church while I stay home with the other. I think they incite one another to new levels of rowdiness.
Though I am sure there are many other demonimations that are quite nice, the marriage compromise was raising them Catholic. If we back off from that, it will be all the way to nothing (or Unitarianism, which is the closest thing I have to a childhood faith).
MUST FIND LIBERAL CATHOLIC CHURCH WITH CRY ROOM. I wonder if the arch-diocese web site has a page listing various parish amenities…
October 8th, 2007 17:01
I hate church, I hate that “sergeant” remark, and I have the same reason for not letting my kids be in Boy Scouts (that, and that they have to pledge commitment to God).
October 8th, 2007 17:50
I’m not a church-goer. Just can’t abstract enough from those various troublesome aspects.
As for the Sarge comment … WTF?
The other thing is this - MUST it be a CRY room? Why not a Laugh and Play Room for the kiddos while Daddy gets his weekly salvation and Mommy gets to seethe.
And who says Toddlers require weekly mass? DUH! That seems ridiculous. Especially with Mr. WhoaThereSarge. Grr.
October 8th, 2007 17:51
I find it really odd that they have to call it the CRY room. Um, why not a Laugh-and-play-and-climb-and-have-a-lovely-time-room while Daddy gets his weekly salvation and mommy seethes? Or, barring that - Wiggle Room, Nursery, Etc?
Just Sayin’!!!
I know kids who’ve been through their first communion have some obligation to go to church but little toddlers? WTF?
October 8th, 2007 17:57
Just so you know… my brother and I weren’t required to go to church every week with our parents until we made our first communion. That’s not til 3rd grade…
Just a thought
October 8th, 2007 17:58
And I totally lied… I meant Reconciliation…
You know, the first big sacrament that you’re conscious enough to acknowledge
October 8th, 2007 20:31
Oh, I can so understand why you hate going to church and all that it entails. Guess I’m lucky J doesn’t exactly believe in God.
October 8th, 2007 21:24
sorry my comment got somehow posted twice in various draft formats. My bad!
October 8th, 2007 22:34
We had the Muffins baptized Catholic and I’ve recently started going to church on a regular basis (I grew up the daughter of the church organist and kind of took the whole faith thing for granted - it’s only recently that I’ve come to really understand what I believe). I am absolutely one of those who “calmly ignores” what I don’t agree with. I enjoy the ritual and the community of the church and find a comfort in Catholicism that I don’t feel elsewhere
My husband is an atheist, but doesn’t mind attending the big services with me (Christmas and Easter, mainly). On a regular basis, though, he stays home with the kids and I go to Mass by myself and it works out great. Eventually, the kids will go to Faith Formation (the new name of CCD) and receive their sacraments, but I wouldn’t dream of taking them to Mass until they’re at least Kindergarten age. While I appreciate having the option to bring them, fighting with a squirmy toddler (and, boy oh boy, is my daughter ever the independent wiggle worm!) would leave me feeling unfulfilled and frustrated. I go to Saturday afternoon Mass and it sets a great tone for the rest of the weekend. We have all Sunday to enjoy as a family and the kids gets some great Daddy time while I’m at church.
I love, love, love what Brian’s grandmother used to say! That sums up perfectly how I approach my relationship with the church.
October 8th, 2007 22:44
Stacie- I just said to my husband at church on Sunday- “we’re in for a real treat once they start moving!” We’re already quite the “show” with four in a pew.
I loathe the cry room. In our church it’s more for older children who’s parents never took the time to teach them why we go to church and how to be respectful there. We stopped going in there after #2 was born.
I’ll pray for peace about your church issues. Sorry you feel that way.
October 8th, 2007 22:45
Oh, man, that makes my blood boil. The sarge comment, the feelings about homosexuals…ALL OF IT. My husband is a recovering Catholic, and I am Lutheran. He is incredulous that my church is so accepting of all walks of life. I mean, we just had a WOMAN PASTOR baptize our children! I don’t think his family has gotten over it yet!!!!
October 9th, 2007 11:30
Boy, I don’t really know what to say. Yes, keeping control of a toddler at church is very hard, and I just have one. I tend to come armed with books, toys (that don’t make too much noise), stickers (great fun and quiet), food (goldfish, crackers, etc), sippy with juice, blanket, and Pooh. Yes, I look like I’m moving in for an hour, especially since it takes two bags to carry all this. There are many, many, many times when either my husband or myself have carried M. out because she had lost her mind. It’s frustrating and embarassing, but it’s something we just do because we feel it is important.
Now in saying that it’s important, that does not necessarily mean that we believe in all the concepts of the church. Personally, I think it needs to catch up with the times. I will definitely agree with Aunt Jane’s persepective on the church.
Personally, the cry room does not work for us. M. would rather try to play with all the kids in the room, thus upsetting their parents who are trying to get their kid to pay attention. We’ve received many dirty looks when trying the cry room, so now we just sit in one of the last pews on the end so we can make a quick escape if need be.
October 9th, 2007 13:51
I haven’t been to church since the twins were born. Scratch that, since i was 7 months pg and couldn’t really handle Chloe on my own. Dh doesn’t want to go and i can’t handle 3 little ones by myself in church — ours has no cry room either(built in the 1880’s, no cry rooms then!). When i started going there i felt weird about bringing a poorly-behaved toddler b/c there are few children in the congregation. But Father Paul told me to bring her, because children are God’s blessing and if people are not happy to hear them, then that is too bad for those closed-minded people. (which is, of course, not to say you let them tantrum in the aisles or whatever, but you KWIM). And in fact Chloe behaves well there, usually. I miss church and need to figure out a way to start going again, though i have some serious issues with the Church now (and always). I totally agree with Brian’s grandmother, that sums it up perfectly for me too!