Why I Shouldn’t Check My Referrals
I can check what sites referred people here. That’s how I find out about the crazy searches that land people on this site. Today I had a lesson on why I shouldn’t follow those links.
I’ve asked that this Facebook group be removed for harassment so by the time you read this it may be gone which would be nice.
One of my former students, a boy afflicted with a major case of entitled brattiness, made a Facebook group linking to my post on one year of nursing twins. General student comments included things like “With her choice of proffession I find this disturbing,” “i am still really immature and think that is gross…,” “go figure the one teachers boobs i don’t want to see i see,” “I believe she did this in hope to appear in Playboy’s Milk of the Month page” and so on. The charming founder asked “Who does this? and Why?”
Well, since you asked…
I think it’s pretty obvious WHO does it. I do. As far as why, well being able to breastfeed my children remains one my proudest accomplishments. It wasn’t easy, it took a lot of work, a lot of struggle and a lot of determination. It hurt. I didn’t get a lot of sleep. I had to pump milk to maintain my supply when my son wouldn’t latch which made me feel like a cow. I did (and do) it because I believe very strongly that human milk provides them with the best possible nutrition. Children who are breast fed have high IQs, lower rates of asthma, a decreased risk of diabetes, lower SIDS rates. I could go on. Formula is wonderful for women who can’t breastfeed for whatever reason but breast milk is indisputably best.
Breastfeeding rates, especially for twins, are also very low. Many women simply assume it isn’t doable. Doctors are uneducated about breastfeeding management and rarely supportive. The knowledge base that other nursing twin mothers shared was invaluable when I was struggling. I’ve taken photos and made videos of my children breastfeeding so I can remember this time when it is over. I post them to let other women know that it is possible to nurse twins. I write about my experiences to contribute to the collected wisdom out there in cyber space so that other struggling mothers have that much more to draw upon.
It’s just too bad that a former student thinks it’s fun to try to use them to publicly humiliate me. And it makes me sad that students I used my spare time to tutor, students for whom I designed individual curriculums, students who went to a school founded on principles of faith and religious values would play along.
UPDATE: The group is down and the slew of Facebook referrals has slowed to a trickle. I also reported the ringleader for online harassment to the Dean of Students at Emerson, the institution that he attends, though now that Facebook has taken the offending group down I doubt they can do anything.
I’d like to say something snippy like “you can read the results of a Catholic education focused on faith, respect and character in some of the more colorful comments” but I know those kids are the aberration, not the norm.
Stumble it!
Donate to the Zoë and Lennox Simpson Memorial Fund
and the 529 college savings accounts get a kickback.
November 29th, 2007 18:11
I am sorry that someone was so rude to you…
Thank you for being so open and honest about your nursing experiences. Your website and it’s archives was one that I would turn to during my 5am pumping sessions, and it is was in part what kept me going, day by day. Your early struggles made me feel better, like I wasn’t the only new mom who struggled and wanted to give up. We had so many challenges…inverted nipples, my daughters mouth wasn’t physically big enough to latch on the nipple shield, I am very private and was uncomfortable nursing in front of anyone but my husband, c-section recovery, twins, exhaustion, milk supply…I was able to switch the kids to all breast milk at 10 days, but to this day, my daughter gets a lot of hers in bottles, and my son has only taken bottles since he was 3.5 months old. He simply stopped nursing, and no matter what I did, or the LC suggested, he had developed too strong of a bottle preference. So, I pump. Every day, three times a day. The kids are 6.5 months old, and we are still only doing breast milk. I feel very proud of this fact, because is was and is a lot of work.
I don’t really feel comfortable talking about BFing too much at my sight, as even my father reads it, so it is nice to have an outlet, blogging, with other mom’s of twins.
I read your blog every day, and you are an encouragement to me.
November 29th, 2007 18:38
I am actually staring at the computer in awe mouth wide open.. is this for real. some ass has the time and gall to really start a group??? wow. i sure hope it gets removed. You should be proud of all your accomplishments and the amazing job you are doing. I am encouraged by you. again really this just is retarded.
November 29th, 2007 19:45
I am speechless. I keep writing comments and deleting them. Kids can be such assholes. Especially the entitled ones. Breastfeeding should be covered in health class (I don’t remember it taking up more than a sentence or two in the health book I used when I taught 9th grade health) so it’s not such a shock to their delicate constitutions. Wait until some of those girls grow up and realize that breastfeeding is one of the least sexual activities their breasts will ever take part in and there’s nothing “eew” about it.
November 29th, 2007 21:12
This entire situation continues to make me angry. GAH.
November 29th, 2007 21:39
Ugh! All I can say is, I’m so sorry. This kind of situation is why I try to post revealing photos, as I’m currently teaching. But I’ve always admired that you feel comfortable doing so, and I’m sorry that someone made you feel bad about it.
And as you know, still BFing twins here at almost 15 months, so I’m who does this, too. I even still do it, every day, at daycare, on the campus I work. Hopefully some day these kids you used to teach will actually care enough about their own children to want them breastfed as well.
November 29th, 2007 21:44
Well, it looks like it was gone which falls into the good riddance and bad rubbish clause.
Really, I feel sorry for that kid. His mother had to essentially bully teachers so he could pass high school. She actually used to have students in her classes do the parts of his homework she wasn’t doing herself. And he was so rude to her. I’m against hitting kids but I would be hard pressed not to slap a teenage child of mine who spoke to me the way he spoke to her. What kind of life will someone that entitled and spoiled with no sense of consequences have once he leaves the protected cocoon of college? It’s sad.
November 29th, 2007 23:52
Stacie, as a former student of st paul I find your rants offensive and out of line. Aren’t you a grown up women? Your saggy breasts would certainly say so. I used to consider you an intelligent women, but after reading your blogs and looking at your videos I’ve lost all respect for you as a human being. How would your children feel knowing their mother is naked and exposed on the internet? And that their mother has nothing better to do with her time than banter with a college student. It’s time to grow up Stacie. I certainly hope that someday if I ever give birth to a child I’ll be more mature than to still argue with people years younger than me. I guess everyone’s brains evolve differently though. Darwinism is wild. Do monkey’s breastfeed? Oh yah I watched your video… well enough said. It’s just sad that for someone I used to respect so much, I now can think so little of. I’ll pray for you.
utterly dissappointed
November 30th, 2007 00:05
Either this kid will someday look back at this and be properly ashamed of how he acted towards you as his future wife attempts to breastfeed, or, he will be that lousy jerk of a husband that we all wouldn’t wish on our worst enemy. My money is on the second one…..
Sorry you are being targeted like that. What an asshole.
November 30th, 2007 00:07
That’s awful, but very revealing of his personality. On the bright side, when he makes it to college, chances are low that mom can continue to do his work for him and flunking out will surely follow close behind.
It’s all about karma.
My doc told me that I’m the only twin mom she’s met in a long while that’s actually fully BFing twins. She seemed surprised but pleased. One of the docs that checked out the twins at the hospital asked what I was doing for feeding them and when I said BFing he was very dismissive. “That’s a nice GOAL…” said he in a condescending manner. Ehn. What did he know about me or my situation. The problem is that his casual remark might have thrown off a first time mom and made her think it’s impossible.
Good on you for breastfeeding your twins! You’re my role model. : )
November 30th, 2007 00:21
I hope he learns someday how you can and cannot treat others. His comeuppance will be harsh, however, and he will have brought it upon himself. I agree, it is sad. I’m not excusing him or his behavior in any way, but this backfire on him eventually, and it will be ugly.
I am very saddened to hear that kids you tutored and help fell into this like sheep. These sound like kids who can be decent people. Hopefully they’ll reflect on their actions and grow spines instead of wool. It’s hard to stand up against your friends, but in the name of such obvious idiocy? There was no excuse not to. They should be ashamed of their actions. I hope they learn from this.
You and your Might Breastices are of course, awe inspiring. Keep up the good work!
November 30th, 2007 01:13
I’m sorry that some asshat teenager decided that he had nothing better to do than harass you.
I appreciate your posting about your experiences in breastfeeding your twins, it gave me encouragement when I started breastfeeding my twins. Thank you!
November 30th, 2007 01:25
You know what? All of you dykes should just shut the hell up. You think you’re so great because you breastfeed. Well I never did and you beotches should keep your disgusting breast to yourselves for all God’s children’s sake.
November 30th, 2007 02:51
While I do believe that the immaturity level of the group was high, the general inquisitive nature of students beholding a former teacher sharing such things over the interweb is far to much for most to overcome. This idea, I feel, must be understood to reflect many of the members of the late e-gossip “group”.
As we have found through our bouts in higher learning that you were one of the true stars in our mind’s evolution; we respect you whole heartedly, and are overjoyed at your motherly success with such a splendid pair of offspring.
I hope this response can conjure perhaps an inkling of clemency for us that meant no harm in our meddlesome ways. ‘Tis merely the darker sides in anonymity of the virtual world.
-One for many.
November 30th, 2007 05:59
Oh Stacie, how awful. At least that group seems to be gone. I am flabbergasted that college age people can be so hurtful and immature.
You really are an inspiration as you can see from the comments above; it may feel like preaching to the choir sometimes but the comments show that your posts and photos have had a real, positive influence on a lot of mothers’ (and kids’) lives. Good on you, as we say down here.
November 30th, 2007 08:06
I am so happy the group seems to be gone. I am angry for you for so many reasons. Students should not disrespect a teacher like that. It makes me so sad that breastfeeding is so marginalized in this country that something like this could happen. Also, Facebook already has its own breastfeeding issues, and this only adds fuel to the “it’s sexy! it;s titillating! the kids can’t handle it!” mentality.
November 30th, 2007 09:34
I will just reiterate my comment policy here. “I don’t moderate out rude idiots. Usually. Be too rude to regular readers and you’re out. You can be as nasty as you like to me.” Any other comment referring to breastfeeding mothers as “dykes” (whatever the sexual orientation of the mother in question) will not be published.
Naturally, the rude idiots don’t have the courage to stand up and openly proclaim their nastiness. Is that a developmental thing? Does anyone know? At what age is it reasonable to expect a person to be willing to own their own words?
So sad, really. But, character will out.
November 30th, 2007 10:02
Stacie, I applaud you for breastfeeding your twins. Nursing one infant can be exhausting but times that by 2 or 3— you nursing mamas of multiplies are my hero! One of the things that got me through nursing my son was knowing that if moms of multiplies can push through the pains of nursing, than I can most definitely push through and nurse one baby.
I love (insert sarcasm here) when individuals start naming calling and flying off the handle to try and make their point. Can they not be respectful while they debate and say why it is the way they feel over a subject? Maybe only a select few are born with that gene.
Kori- I’m betting my money on the second of the two as well.
November 30th, 2007 10:17
I know this has already been mentioned…but the thing that KILLS me is that these are now college kids. They could be having babies in 2 or 3 years. Does this kid honestly think any women will want to be with him if he is so disrespectful and MEAN to a women, to a mother…to a teacher who helped his ass out. What women would want to be with a guy like that?!
And these girls….you will see. A few years from now when you are struggling to breastfeed your new baby because you KNOW how much better it is for your child….I hope you all think of this teacher who not only nursed 1…but 2 babies…and how you joined in with an immature prick and made comments about her over the internet.
I hope one day you see that was only trying to help and encourage other mothers of multiples that they CAN nurse their babies too. AND ladies…most importantly….never have children/date/marry a man like Mike - this is his view of women, he attacks women, he demeans women…you ARE a women and you all deserve better than a man like him.
November 30th, 2007 10:49
Mike, don’t invoke your God (which apparently is a misogynistic homophobe who can’t spell very well) into public discourse. It just makes you look bad.
November 30th, 2007 10:54
“At what age is it reasonable to expect a person to be willing to own their own words?”
Sadly, it depends entirely on the person. I’ve seen 10 year old with conviction, but in general I’d vote for 16+, with some occasional sheep behavior for the next few years. In this case, however, it’s likely not to happen at all. Someone this far into their own ego and self-hatred (he has to know what it says about him as a person if he can’t do his own work/mama has to repeatedly bail him out/he attacks her for it/he has to be an ass to others to try to make people like him) will probably not find the end of this in his lifetime, and I pity him. I hope he finds the way out of this morass and find ways to become a better person, but the chances are indeed slim. Considering the poor guide he’s had in his mother, as long as she’s around, the chances are even lower.
It is my sincere wish that he find a way to love himself and move past this kind of behavior.It isn’t worthy of a child, and he would know better if he could see around his own pain, which is is most likely not even aware is there.
November 30th, 2007 11:33
“Mike” breastfed? How is that possible?
November 30th, 2007 11:35
“Mike, don’t invoke your God (which apparently is a misogynistic homophobe who can’t spell very well) into public discourse. It just makes you look bad.”
hehehehe
November 30th, 2007 11:57
I am almost at a loss for words as to the immaturity and idiocy of your former students. I am sure that their respective colleges are proud of such low brow banter by their students.
Part of me thinks, with that intellectual level, there is no way that these children were breastfed. Had they been, their IQ levels would have been higher and they would not participate in such imbecilic behavior.
Stacie, I am proud of you for breastfeeding twins! Breastfeeding is a difficult yet highly rewarding endeavor. What a wonderful gift to your children and to yourself. It is sad that these students are trying to reduce something natural and normal to sexual perversion. Let’s excuse their behavior and blame it on the stupidity of their youth (though my 13 year old has much more maturity and understanding of the natural process of BF–he has never been embarrased by my nursing his younger brother in public, by pictures of my nursing and would not be offended by your video).
November 30th, 2007 12:08
I’m speechless. The utter ignorance, lack of respect, and plain rudeness saddens me. But they are young and immature and they will learn much about the world soon enough.
I do take issue with Steph’s statement that they must not have been breastfed because their IQ’s would be higher. That is exactly the sort of statement that perpetuates the discord between women who can BF and women who’ve struggled (like myself). The students of Stacie’s are simply ignorant, but women who are as informed as Steph are the real hurful ones - the ones who make the divide between women who could and women who couldn’t (not didn’t want to, but couldn’t) even larger.
November 30th, 2007 12:33
Stacie, i am sorry that this happened to you. One of the hazards of the internet, i suppose. I am glad the site was removed.
And yes, you are an inspiration to me!
November 30th, 2007 12:45
Kim,
I am sorry that you were offended by my post. In no way was I trying to infer that women who BF are better than those who do not. I am sorry you found my post hurtful. I was not making a divide between women who can and cannot and I am sorry that you jumped to that conclusion.
I was being a little facetious and was also alluding to the fact that had they been breastfed, they would not be so quick to look at breastfeeding as perversion.
Please do not put words in my mouth or attribute intent that was not there.
November 30th, 2007 13:15
My understanding is that women with higher IQs are more likely to BF, and since the best indicator of a child’s future IQ is the IQ of the mother/primary caregiver, the breastfeeders end up with kids with higher IQs on average. It’s not the milk itself, it’s the parents involved. To say otherwise isn’t the whole truth, and the information is a bit outdated. Not that I didn’t appreciate the humor though, Steph. Kim, ((hugs)). I’ve been there. My BFing dreams crashed and burned.
My objection to the Facebook harassment isn’t that they object to breastfeeding, it’s that they cannot do so civilly or rationally. Heck, they aren’t objecting to it any more than to cast dispersions on someone who once held power over them. I’m proud of the students who spoke against it, here and on Facebook–you should stand up for what is right, and if you do not, standing up to admit your mistakes is still brave and worthy.
November 30th, 2007 13:29
I apologize for my quick jump on Steph’s comment. As much as I try to NOT feel guilty about my breastfeeding experience, it’s still hard, and my twins are almost 20 months old (how can that be right?). I just feel like, in general, there are breastfeeding moms who are SO quick to point out what I must have done wrong or how uninformed I must have been. It’s one of those things that I take very personally, and there is blame enough to go around - me for giving up, my doctor for being an a$$, and the hospital LC who wasn’t even aware there was another baby (I had one in the NICU and one with me).
It’s really easy to divide the BFers from the FFers. But the path to both can be so much less black and white. And there are a lot of BF moms out there who cast judgement solely on the black and white part of the question. Steph, you are not one of them, and please accept my apology for assuming so.
November 30th, 2007 13:40
Kim, absolutely no hard feelings. I am sorry that my attempt a joke went awry. You should not feel bad that you could nurse, I am sure that you give your little ones all the best in the world in so many ways. Formula is not poison. ITA with Alice (that happens a lot), parental involvement (in a positive way, not in the way of entitled imbeciles who start silly groups on Facebook) is far more influential on children’s intelligence than who produced their milk!
November 30th, 2007 17:13
You’ve raised decent points. But remember one thing.
When one puts information on the internet, one must expect it to be exposed to a complete spectrum of internet browsers. This, of course, entails the high and the low. While there is a niche population that may find your video wonderful because of the nature of your maternal care, it’s simply foolish to post something like this online and then act shocked when people respond to it the way they do. If you should ever again feel the urge to videotape yourself breastfeeding and post it online, make sure this video appears in the proper context where it can be appreciated rather then laughed at.
Myself being a member of the low rather then the high, I feel compelled to say “titties”.
November 30th, 2007 17:39
I can say as someone who fought almost as hard to bf as you had too, that these idgits obviously are not the product of breastfeeding mothers, as they obviously do not have the IQ breastfeeding bestows, or the security that real parent child bonding insures. This is very obvious since they are hanging their right to harrass you on the backs of their religion. Did Mary not breastfeed Jesus? Or are all of those icons and paintings fake? In short, they suck. You don’t.
November 30th, 2007 19:57
I doubt the few IQ points that BF seems to bestow would help here, actually.
I have edited my comment policy to address the number of anonymous posters here today. “Anonymous cowards are generally ignored by me but may be trashed at will by others; have the courage to own your words if you want people to take your arguments seriously.”
To restate: if you don’t have the courage to tell me who you are I see no reason I should deign to respond to you.
November 30th, 2007 21:29
I am so speechless, I’m not even sure I can comment. The fact that a former student found your blog and felt the need to harrass you about it is one thing, but the nasty comments I’ve read here are quite another. Wow.
I will say this — breastfeeding my twins was by far the hardest thing I’ve ever done, and I thank my lucky stars that I found your blog before my babies came home from the NICU. Please know that I would NEVER have stuck with the BF’ing if I hadn’t found your blog. Knowing that I wasn’t alone was really the only reason I stuck with it, and I am seriously indebted to you for that.
November 30th, 2007 22:06
yikes. Apparently our culture has a looong way to go.
Everything SEXUAL is completely acceptable but something as natural and pure as breastfeeding is still being distorted by the ignorant. ICK!
December 1st, 2007 01:13
This didn’t have to be turned into a breastfeeding / not breastfeeding guilt discussion, but it did. And, it didn’t have to turn into people dismissing the advantages of breastfeeding. The research behind the higher IQ of breastfed babies is pretty clear - confounders like higher IQs of the mother have been ruled out. So, Alice, please don’t dismiss research findings if you haven’t read and understood the vast research on breastfeeding benefits.
And, Kim, please don’t call large groups of people “judgmental” and “black and white thinkers”…hypocritical much? There is no blame to go around, and telling breastfeeding moms they are judgmental isn’t fixing the mommy wars problem. Support new moms who need support and prevent the guilt if you want to help the problem.
December 1st, 2007 01:15
Anon posted, “it’s simply foolish to post something like this online and then act shocked when people respond to it the way they do.”
Ah, so Stacie asked for it? This must be the “she wore a miniskirt and asked for it” gimmick.
How about these students take responsibility for their actions, like the adults that society expects them to be? Oh wait - that would be the hard thing to do, whereas telling Stacie to not post videos and images of her breastfeeding would be the easy way.
Pathetic, “Anon.” At least have the guts to put your name behind your excuse for sexism.
December 1st, 2007 09:47
You would think in this computer age they would have the ability to filter content to the extent they don’t see things that make them feel awkward, uncomfortable or disgusted. How is it easier to make/join a facebook group and descend on a website to make disgusted comments about a mother doing an absolutely amazing job of feeding her children. If you are old enough to browse the internet uncensored by parents, make the decision for yourself about what you do or don’t want to see. There are many many truly disgusting things on the internet. This isn’t one of them, this is a wonderful, beautiful expression of love from a mother to her children, but if you don’t want to watch it, don’t.
I do.. Stacie why is the link no longer available, did I miss something?
December 1st, 2007 11:33
Hilary,
Evidently I should have included “in my experience” before my statement. In no way was I making sweeping generalizations about ALL BF moms; that would be pretty stupid since I was one for 5 1/2 months of my twins’ lives.
Nor did I call BF moms black and white thinkers. Hyperbole much? What I said was that BF or not BF is the black and white issue, but the road to each is very gray, and focus tends to be on the black and white part of it.
IN MY EXPERIENCE, I have PERSONALLY been attacked by seemingly well-meaning BF moms who I can only call judgemental because they have judged me, my path to giving up BF earlier than I had hoped, and their unwillingness to find the gray.
Please, as Steph said, don’t put attribute intent that wasn’t there.
December 1st, 2007 11:50
“The research behind the higher IQ of breastfed babies is pretty clear - confounders like higher IQs of the mother have been ruled out. So, Alice, please don’t dismiss research findings if you haven’t read and understood the vast research on breastfeeding benefits.”
It’s interesting that you assume I haven’t read or understood the research on the topic, Hilary, considering you know nothing about me. I am in no way dismissing the advantages of BFing, I am simply saying that the correlation between breastmilk and IQs is sorely misunderstood. And no, the IQ of the mother has *not* been ruled out. There is significant support on each side of that debate, and to say otherwise is misleading. No one here is dismissing the benefits of BFing (beyond the anonymous morons); I’m surprised you can’t see that. I’m more interested in the truth than propaganda, and the fact that I’m arguing in favor of what I believe the science supports doesn’t mean that I am dismissing any benefits. I’m simply saying that this particular benefit may have other causes. Breastmilk is hands down the best way to feed an infant; again, no one (intelligent) here is saying otherwise. Perhaps you should reread our posts. All the same, this isn’t relevant to the original topic, nor is it helpful for any of us to be having this ridiculous argument when no one is actually arguing against breastfeeding (again, excluding the moron factor, which applies to neither of us).
******************************
“If you should ever again feel the urge to videotape yourself breastfeeding and post it online, make sure this video appears in the proper context where it can be appreciated rather then laughed at.”
“Anon,”, what better context is there than on a site dedicated to childrearing and breastfeeding? I’m genuinely curious here–where else online would this go? And really, it’s not shocking that some immature folks will think, “boobies!” and get turned on by it. What’s appalling is that is was used in an attempt to humiliate a person who tried to help the students in question. The attempt at humiliation failed, but it is the attempt itself, and especially towards someone who actually cared about her students, that is objectionable, not that some nitwit got a stiffy gawking at his former teachers’ breasts.
December 1st, 2007 15:17
Alice & Casey –
I don’t think you are likely to get a response. These anonymous coward comments are from the kind of people who like to drop their little bombs and then run away rather than people interested in discourse. I’ll bet you one age-appropriate, wooden, lead-free toy that “saddened,” “Mike,” “Anonymous,” and Anon” are never going to come back and engage in a mature discussion. Of course, that would make me the sort of dreadful person willing to argue (also known as engage in a discussion with) people years younger than me. Horrible, I know, treating college students as people capable of standing up to me in a discussion. Of course, so far I have seen no indication of that in this particular instance but hope springs eternal.
That Mike McGuire would start a group dedicated to trying to mock and/or humiliate anyone isn’t shocking. It does make me sad that so many people jumped on his nasty little bandwagon and that no one told him off but at that age it is very hard to stand up to injustice or cruelty of any sort much less such perpetrated by a “cool” kid against a former teacher or “uncool” kid. And, to some extent, telling him off would have (and did, I’m sure) only play into his need for attention. Now, if Mike actually took stock of his actions, realized he had done wrong and apologized, well, that would be shocking.
December 1st, 2007 15:33
This conversation has already been successfully (and selfishly, IMO) derailed enough that I am not going to respond extensively on this thread to the two side arguments I addressed before. I think it is an all too common shame when conversations online about breastfeeding devolve into breastfeeding mom (and lactation consultant) bashing sessions, and I think it’s bad enough that Stacie’s former students are coming on here and being so ridiculous and offensive. Not having support from other moms who would rather unnecessarily project their own issues onto the conversation, as I pointed out before, just helps the pile up on breastfeeders.
If I have time while studying for medical school finals, I may address these common thread derails AGAIN on my own blog. In the meantime, a survey of RECENT evidence (where there is some argument but vastly greater support for the association, and remember, meta analyses are not good determinants of causality) on PubMed may be a good idea for Alice, and “in my experience”, these threads almost always devolve when people start saying what they think most breastfeeders really think about their struggling peers, which in MY experience, is usually empathy and sorrow, not judgment.
December 1st, 2007 17:21
Hah. I have heard many well-meaning breastfeeding moms totally bash non-breastfeeders - for being lazy, stupid, not caring about their children, etc. “In my experience”, of course.
-Casey, she who breastfed her son for 14 months.
December 1st, 2007 22:20
I only breastfed my kids for 4 weeks tops. Not because I didn’t want to, but because we ran into bumps in the road. I consider my own IQ to be average. So when you put those two together, and look at “research,” does that mean my kids are doomed to be stupid?
December 2nd, 2007 04:13
Stacie, I’m really saddened to see this. Since I’ve started reading your blog, you’ve become somewhat of an inspiration to me. I gave up breastfeeding my son too easily, it was too hard and time consuming and basically I’m a wimp. I wish I would have stuck with it, it’s *my big regret*. I know through your blog that if I’m ever blessed with another child, BF is on, and I can’t thank you enough for that.
PS. I’m a college student, I respect you. Forget the kids, they’ll grow up in due time.
December 3rd, 2007 00:32
Also, it’s a shame that a saddened student up there a) used the plural “women” when s/he meant “woman,” and b) asked if “monkey’s” breastfeed - obviously this student was asleep in your class.
AND, my own personal disappointment is that s/he lacked the humour to sign off as “udderly” disappointed. Come on!
December 3rd, 2007 00:47
Stacie - I am saddened too that you have been violated and vilified in this way.You are an inspiration to many. I feel the same as you because I have BF (or EBM) my twins for 17 months now. Sadly there are not many positive examples out in the real world. I had little help from the Special care nursery staff … I was left to fend for myself but I had read so many stories and I was determined so I perservered. I loved to read of twin mums breastfeeding - it gave me hope.
I know a twin mum who when pregnant was laughed at in antenatal classes by the whole group of other parents .The ‘educator’ joked and demontrated with the doll babies how ridiculous (it was made to it look) and hard BFing twins would be.
This young mum did not even attempt to BF because of the experience. She was only twin mum in the class.
College students should have better things to do.I am glad the site was removed.
December 3rd, 2007 12:44
” ‘udderly’ disappointed.”
*snicker*
December 4th, 2007 03:24
Oh, gag, I can’t believe humanity sometimes. I just want to SHAKE those stupid idiots.
I breastfed twins for over a year. _I_ do this. And I did it for the benefit of children I hope won’t be stupid assholes like those ones who set up a FACEBOOK GROUP for the purpose of being rude and yucky. Who does THAT?
December 4th, 2007 11:29
Hilary — I think you are making a controversy where none exists. No one here (other than a few anonymous college kids) is debating the value of breast-feeding. Eppie made a joke. Kim took it amiss. Eppie apologized. End of issue.
As to whether breast-feeding actually makes kids smarter (or formula feeding makes them dumber depending on how you want to frame the issue) I don’t think it is quite as cut and dried as you would like to make it out to be. The answer seems to remain a “maybe” or a “depends.” However, there is no question that breast-feeding promotes health. One article on breast-feeding and IQ that a reader forwarded to me can be found HERE. If anyone has other links about the tenuous connection, or not-so-tenuous perhaps - between breast-feeding and IQ please post them. But let’s stop the implication that people who disagree with us must not understand the science. We are all mostly unknown to one another and to assume that people who don’t agree with you are uneducated on the issue at hand is unproductive.
I have heard breast-feeding mothers be quite snippy about formula feeders in my presence. I “pass” as a breast-feeder because there I am, breast-feeding twins in public so many people don’t realize I had to supplement with formula for the first six months. The lack of compassion you can hear in “closed” groups where “everyone” is a breast-feeding mother can be sad.
Krissy, Heather, Hatchet. Sandi, Kate, Amy — Thank you.
Trish - That anecdote is just disgusting. That poor woman. I am angry on her behalf.
Leaky - - “udderly” *snicker*
December 4th, 2007 23:21
The controversy I saw was that people were turning this thread into a formula moms vs. breastfeeding moms issue, when it was not. I thought it was inconsiderate to you.
I believe you that you may have been in groups of breastfeeding moms who may have been rude to non breastfeeders, but I think that is a rare dynamic that is way overblown on line. In reality, breastfeeding moms are the underdog and I am sick of being accused of being a bully in conversations where it just isn’t happening, I haven’t ever participated in any such bullying, and I think it is incredibly uncommon outside of insular groups such as MDC. These conversations get derailed into breastfeeding bully bashing sessions when it isn’t the topic at hand and isn’t present in the conversation. Just a pet peeve of mine, since I find it hard to be part of a discussion involving either breastfeeding or formula online without someone telling me what judgmental bullies all or most of us breastfeeders are, especially those of us who are lactation consultants, which I have been.
And, I find it unlikely that even in these insular communities, that there is not sympathy for the moms who struggle with breastfeeding. I think it is mostly the moms who decide not to even try for reasons that would not match the priorities of the breastfeeder, that is when you see criticism. Not when someone struggles for months and “fails”.
Since the conversation has swung back to this, let’s discuss the research. I was not accusing someone who just disagreed with me that they were unfamiliar with the science. I have taken classes on breastfeeding and on epidemiology, and I am not just being a snot when I say I understand the research. The research on the effect of breastfeeding and IQ is most accurately analyzed in studies that seek to determine that exact effect. So, for example, studies on siblings comparing breastfeeding and IQ are much stronger than a meta analysis of 43 studies, some of which were examining IQ, some of which weren’t, some of which tried to take into account mother’s IQ and socioeconomic status, and some that didn’t, or a simple cohort study.
So, for example, this study on sibling pairs:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=16336548&ordinalpos=10&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
which examined this very thing would be a much stronger statement on the effect of breastfeeding on IQ than, for example, this study
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=17320351&ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
which was not seeking to eliminate confounders by using only siblings.
According to this study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=17237337&ordinalpos=4&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
the “most consistent effect” found int he 50 or so studies on breastfeeding released EACH MONTH is its effect on cognition and later intelligence tests.
So, it is really easy to take the conclusions of one study, or one metaanalyses, and say “It’s been disproven, get over it” but that is not the case. The preponderance of evidence does agree with an effect. Is it huge? Probably not. Are mothers who don’t or can’t breastfeeding “dooming” their kids to average intelligence? I don’t think so.